Curse

Cathode_Reborn · Feb 18, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

I do feel sorry for the majority of GW players, who have really never ever touched upon the best thing this game has to offer, and that's GvG...

As much as I'd love to GvG, it's usually a major hassle to start if you're a PvE'er.

There's a reason why AB/RA/Aspenwood are popular - they're random entry gametypes that can be started within seconds by anyone. AB actually happens to be popular among PvE'ers (though I hate shrines so i avoid it). It's kinda the same thing with people that H/H everything in pve - no one wants to spend ages standing around "lfg". People turn on this game to have fun, not to spend ages just to start something. If I wanted to GvG right now, I imagine it would take 40 mins at the least just to get one going. I've GvG'd before and it's good fun but seriously, if it's gonna take that much time just to start one, then screw it ill do something else.

I've brought this up to Andrew before, making PvP easier to access for casual players - I was told by a few to just find guests to team with, which I thought was a joke. If I did form a random GvG team in ToB, which would probably take long to do, it's likely that after the team loses (which is likely to happen), there's gonna be players that get discouraged and bail. That encourages even more players to leave, then you end up with hardly anyone left. The only options available casual players are low-quality PvP types. If there was a random entry outpost for GvG similar to RA, I'd be hooked and I'm sure it'd gain popularity fast. A quick team setup similar to TA would be very good also. It's honestly just alot easier for most people to just go to some place where they can click the "Enter" button and wait to start.

Bryant Again · Feb 18, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

That was my biggest gripe about GvG: How hard it is to access. I strongly and fully believe that it is the most well-balanced and structured thing in the game, and this is coming from someone who's PvE'd 95% of his GW time. It's just that getting into it is terribly difficult, and PvP in GW is somewhat punishing.

maraxusofk · Feb 18, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

gvg really isnt hard to get into or have a high learnign curve. if u get owned, find ur mistakes and correct them. if u suck, play more and learn why u suck, then learn to play better. if u wanna jsut mess aroudn in gvg and have light hearted battles, thats great! if you want serious competition but dont want to get owned, remember that other players in top guilds once sucked too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

So I went Iway and got myself rank 6, and of course, the people I know believed I can't run any other builds, but I proved them to be wrong when I ran a fire Elementalist.

anybody else find the bolded statement funny?

DivineEnvoy · Feb 18, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

anybody else find the bolded statement funny?

I'm going to assume that when you mentioned the given statement to be funny as if fire Elementalist is not an efficient build in HA. As you should have noticed, there was a time frame going through the narration I have previous mentioned. I would like to point out there was a time period, which fire Elementalists were efficient in HA balanced builds, and I would like to add when I used such build in HA, fire Elementalists were efficient. I have no idea if fire Elementalists can be used in HA nowadays, which may result to be funny if it is ineffecient, but with the specific reference I had for the time frame I presented, it's really not considered to be funny.

Stockholm · Feb 18, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

gvg really isnt hard to get into or have a high learnign curve. if u get owned, find ur mistakes and correct them. if u suck, play more and learn why u suck, then learn to play better. if u wanna jsut mess aroudn in gvg and have light hearted battles, thats great! if you want serious competition but dont want to get owned, remember that other players in top guilds once sucked too.

anybody else find the bolded statement funny?

thats exactly the mentality that drives new people away from PvP.

Thank you, maraxusofk. you have just shown the Guru forum the grief most PvE peeps have with PvP Peeps.

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 18, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

And I am feeling pity towards you and all those that agree with that post, because of your inability to understand even the smallest thing about people, namely that different people have different ideas of what they consider to be fun.

When did I ever correlate my post towards his? Congrats calling on my inability to understand anything besides my own view, quite the contrary. All I said, is that in my eyes certain players have missed out on a certain aspect of Guild Wars. Which I think is fun and better represents the best aspect of which the GW series represents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

As much as I'd love to GvG, it's usually a major hassle to start if you're a PvE'er.

There's a reason why AB/RA/Aspenwood are popular - they're random entry gametypes that can be started within seconds by anyone. AB actually happens to be popular among PvE'ers (though I hate shrines so i avoid it). It's kinda the same thing with people that H/H everything in pve - no one wants to spend ages standing around "lfg". People turn on this game to have fun, not to spend ages just to start something. If I wanted to GvG right now, I imagine it would take 40 mins at the least just to get one going. I've GvG'd before and it's good fun but seriously, if it's gonna take that much time just to start one, then screw it ill do something else.

I've brought this up to Andrew before, making PvP easier to access for casual players - I was told by a few to just find guests to team with, which I thought was a joke. If I did form a random GvG team in ToB, which would probably take long to do, it's likely that after the team loses (which is likely to happen), there's gonna be players that get discouraged and bail. That encourages even more players to leave, then you end up with hardly anyone left. The only options available casual players are low-quality PvP types. If there was a random entry outpost for GvG similar to RA, I'd be hooked and I'm sure it'd gain popularity fast. A quick team setup similar to TA would be very good also. It's honestly just alot easier for most people to just go to some place where they can click the "Enter" button and wait to start.

Oh I understand don't think I don't. When GW was first released the only way to PvP and actually be successful was to grind/pimp out your PVE character all armor runes/weapons you name it. A while after they released PvP chars with the ability to create whatever you wanted, although still during that time grinding balth faction and the rate at which you could gain it was pretty much on par with just making another PVE char. Been there done that 2x fold, never held me back, and I'm pretty sure at one point in time the majority of GvG/PvP players all went through that grind, beat the game and farmed. I do agree that PvP as a whole needs a much easier access than currently, but be thankful to ANET that things still aren't the same as in 2005. Pretty much all I've seen on various forums boards is that PvP is just TOO MUCH to get into, too much work and dedication involved, although as someone else already pointed out in the time that others spent farming ecto, or grinding for pointless PVE titles others choose to give their time towards other things, caugh...

Shuuda · Feb 18, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

thats exactly the mentality that drives new people away from PvP.

Thank you, maraxusofk. you have just shown the Guru forum the grief most PvE peeps have with PvP Peeps.

Tsk, your skin must be thinner than thread (not the forum sense of thread) If you cannot handle some harmless crap talk, online games are not for you.

Stockholm · Feb 18, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Pathetic, your skin must be thinner than thread (not the forum sense of thread) If you cannot handle some harmless crap talk, online games are not for you.

One more? keep them coming,

This is like fishing with dynamite.

aapo · Feb 18, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

There's a reason why AB/RA/Aspenwood are popular - they're random entry gametypes that can be started within seconds by anyone.

- But there lies the problem:
1) If enemy has competent Monk, it's almost impossible to kill
2) If your team doesn't have competent Monk, it's almost impossible to stay alive against power creep of Nightfall skills.
So big is the difference between dedicated protection and self-healing skills of professions. This is why no one takes Random Arenas seriously. It's just random people running around with no intention to learn the game or win. Luck decides games for you, not your skill. Luck in getting balanced team combination by accident.

quickmonty · Feb 18, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I used to GvG a couple of years ago. I monked for our guild and although we were a low ranked guild we never lost a match when I was there (probably just luck).

I'll tell you why I don't like GvG (or other forms of PvP for that matter). I'm here to relax, and sometimes I just feel like getting up to strecth my legs, get something to drink, or go to the "chamber of secrets". I can do that in PvE, even if I'm with a guild/alliance group. We get to somewhere safe and "let's take a break" is always met with "yeh, me too".

Bottom line: GW has PvE and PvP. Why can't we all just play what we want without the insults and name calling? There is another post about "how old do you have to be to play GW?" Show how mature you are by expressing opinions without insult and inuendo.

~Peace

Shuuda · Feb 18, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

One more? keep them coming,

This is like fishing with dynamite.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, it's easy to get hardcore PvErs to respond when you talk about PvP needing more skill.

Stockholm · Feb 18, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, it's easy to get hardcore PvErs to respond when you talk about PvP needing more skill.

Copycat, Dynamite is my built get your own.

Pandora's box · Feb 18, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Funny, I was thinking the same thing, it's easy to get hardcore PvErs to respond when you talk about PvP needing more skill.

Shuuda, get a job or something. Your'e talking way too much in this forum without saying anything.

To the opp: It's not important. You can play both PvP or PvE and have lots of fun, or just play only PvP or PvE and have lots of fun too (although for PvE the fun increases if you have Eye of the North and Nightfall).

Kashrlyyk · Feb 18, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

....All I said, is that in my eyes certain players have missed out on a certain aspect of Guild Wars. Which I think is fun and better represents the best aspect of which the GW series represents.
...

You didn´t say that! You said: "I do feel sorry for..." Which gives the impression of pity.

Clarissa F · Feb 19, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

8 pages arguing about an aspect of the same game being better, turned into a flame fest about pve being care bear or pvp being full of assholes.

Try joining the military, like the Evil gang. When you get into the elite, be it Rangers, Marines, or especially SEALs, Recon, or SF, you get a different mentality. You have people who know they are the best of the best, not because of the badge they wear, but because of what they had to put into it to get it. It's the same with any special group that has achieved a special recognition for their abilities. Sure, you may have the rare altruistic being who is able to get beyond their ego and help others achieve better. Most, however, remember how they were treated like crap coming up, and think it's their turn to treat others the same way. Some think it's a way to make sure those wanting to attain their level will have what it takes, and not crap themselves when they get to that level. Just as SEALs have to go through 26 weeks of hell and 6 more months of training before they can wear the Budweiser, a person wanting to achieve the higher levels of PvP might have to deal with the crap and abuse while building themselves up to that higher level.

It doesn't mean, however, that you are any less of a person for not going Recon, or even joining the military, altogether. Most of you will never wear a uniform, yet still lead full, happy lives no less significant, and maybe in some cases more so, than those in service. Pve isn't "worse" than PvP. You can argue, very successful, that if it weren't for PvE, there would be no Guild Wars. Look at Fury. All PvP, no chance for RP or casual play. How is that game doing? Oh yeah, it isn't! See when they have separate PvP/PvE servers, and see how many they need for PvP. I don't think they will be taxed. It's not a good idea to crap on those who are your bread and butter. Of course, this is a 13 and up game, and teenagers tend for the most part not to think past their own face.

Just using the military as a familiar analogy to me. This is just a game, after all. It's about as important to your life as a game of checkers. Of course, if you want a true PvP challenge, try facing a game where there is no safe outpost or city, where when you die, there is no res shrine, and you can't just go to another game.

Nevin · Feb 19, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

This is largely turning into an argument that was very familiar on the Gametrailers forums. The Wii "casual gamers" vs Xbox 360/PS3 "hardcore gamers" = PvEr's vs PvPr's? The larger portion that think less of the game itself versus the smaller portion which think they're more important than the game itself, I'll leave it to you to see the correlation.

In the end it doesn't really matter, because the majority will always be pleased first and foremost. Not to say PvPers are doomed, just that PvP will be most likely made more fitting to the casual gamer in GW2- Thus blurring the division to the point where arguments like PvP vs PvE won't exist.

And to Shuuda, we're all sorry that were not experts in internet forum flame warfare, with hardened experience from days hunched at a keyboard in front of a monitor.

Edit: Clarissa wins the offtopic award. j/k j/k j/k For real though, the whole "its just a game" argument doesn't really have place in a forum thats meant to be for discussion/debates/even arguments about the game being played.

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 19, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Not to say PvPers are doomed, just that PvP will be most likely made more fitting to the casual gamer in GW2- Thus blurring the division to the point where arguments like PvP vs PvE won't exist.

GW2 will have World PvP, which will be a nice mode for anyone to enjoy, and it will also have structured PvP similar to what we have now in GvG. Important change that we'll see in GW2 PvP is UAX from the very beginning. "Emergent complexity" will be there too, but I am not sure how that system would turn out. I hope it will be easier to get into PvP in GW2 than in GW1.

enter_the_zone · Feb 19, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

This is largely turning into an argument that was very familiar on the Gametrailers forums. The Wii "casual gamers" vs Xbox 360/PS3 "hardcore gamers" = PvEr's vs PvPr's? The larger portion that think less of the game itself versus the smaller portion which think they're more important than the game itself, I'll leave it to you to see the correlation.

In the end it doesn't really matter, because the majority will always be pleased first and foremost. Not to say PvPers are doomed, just that PvP will be most likely made more fitting to the casual gamer in GW2- Thus blurring the division to the point where arguments like PvP vs PvE won't exist.

And to Shuuda, we're all sorry that were not experts in internet forum flame warfare, with hardened experience from days hunched at a keyboard in front of a monitor.

Edit: Clarissa wins the offtopic award. j/k j/k j/k For real though, the whole "its just a game" argument doesn't really have place in a forum thats meant to be for discussion/debates/even arguments about the game being played.

Nor does Shuuda, his argument boils down to "I r Masterchief, I r 1337. U got na 5ki11z PVE noob. lollollol"

Oh, and the best part is so many PvP people disowning HA, that's actually funny.

Taurucis · Feb 19, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

I'd say that Guild Wars is a PvE game, although Anet still thinks it's a PvP game.

The reason why most people stay with PvE is the PvP'ers mentality. Basically if your account doesn't start with instant r6 and r3 champion, you can't find a group and you'll just get farmed for fame. No one says "GG" after a match, it's only "Pve this way scrubs" or "lawl pve moar" and insults.

We have real life if we want arrogant, rude people thumping their noses down at us. Why should we put up with 7+ months of verbal abuse just so that we can join the group of the people who abuse the newbies?

It's like high school cliques. You've got the top dogs who will go out of their way to bully anything and everything they can get. To join them, you have to like what they like, do what they do, think how they think, and agree with what they believe.

My main problem with PvP is what happens when guildies/friends leave PvE behind, and run off with PvP friends. They spam up your whisper/GC/AC with "LOL we're against this guild!" or "LOL WE GOT SPIKED" or "Woot I'm almost r6!" or "Yay, another fame!" or "Look we're in halls!" when frankly the majority of us don't care.

maraxusofk · Feb 19, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

I'm going to assume that when you mentioned the given statement to be funny as if fire Elementalist is not an efficient build in HA. As you should have noticed, there was a time frame going through the narration I have previous mentioned. I would like to point out there was a time period, which fire Elementalists were efficient in HA balanced builds, and I would like to add when I used such build in HA, fire Elementalists were efficient. I have no idea if fire Elementalists can be used in HA nowadays, which may result to be funny if it is ineffecient, but with the specific reference I had for the time frame I presented, it's really not considered to be funny.

no im not saying that fire eles are bad. u look at a group of balled up enemies and u press 1-2-3. im just saying that being a good fire ele in ha isnt exactly an accomplishment. maybe in gvg where u hafta split off and know wut ur doing like in a sin split, but in ha its mostly 1-2-3. maybe ur a great player, but citing fire eles as proof is not a good example.